Obama Citizenship

TheGreenPapers.com: An Example in Legitimate Disagreement

By Phil

Not long after I posted a critique to the bloggers at TheGreenPapers.com (an excellent, political horse-race-type blog, by the way) after one of their editors appeared to me to be somewhat ignorant over the Obama eligibility issue, Mr. Richard E. Berg-Andersson posted a response to my response.

As he copiously suggested in the referenced link, I highly suggest that you first take a look at his response before reading through my secondary response which, I think, clarifies a few things that I think Mr. Berg-Andersson is confused about and some things I didn’t totally make clear in my critique.

Also, I cannot move on without once again saying that while Mr. Berg-Andersson and I will likely never see eye-to-eye on this singular issue, this is the way to disagree, and all I have ever asked of anyone who opposes my views.

So, without further ado, I will now respond to his response in order of points he brought up:

1. I really don’t think I’m a “birther,” per se, because I don’t really know whether or not Mr. Obama was actually born in Kenya. A document has appeared online representing itself to be a certification of live birth from the great State of Hawaii, but since only the “otherwise-uncredentialed-for-document-analysis” individuals over at the FactCheck.org blog have been the only ones to physically see this document, well… I think we all know how easy it is to Photoshop things;
2. I am a “blogger” in the sense that I own (“rent,” as it were) a domain name and host this domain on a provider that allows for the WordPress blogging application to be hosted. Regardless, since TheGreenPapers.com claims to have existed for greater than 10 years, I give all props to them for representin’ ;
3. Unfortunately, Mr. Berg-Andersson misinterpreted what I meant when I said that it doesn’t really matter that there’s a difference between “natural born” and “native born” (aside from the fact that only one of these two phrases is actually in the Constitution and I, being a literalist, don’t want to insert words that aren’t already there). That’s because I think that attorney Leo Donofrio’s argument that nationality at birth is the key criteria upon which Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 should be interpreted.
   1. Secondarily, and even more importantly (especially as I had promised in my original critique to produce a Court case that at least had something to do with natural born citizenship in connection with the presidency; this one still doesn’t, but it’s the closest to answer the question of presidential eligibility), please see the following link from City-Data.com. It presents an excellent, layman explanation of Minor v. Happersett RE: natural born citizenship;
   2. Once again, I must emphasize that the above Court case does not directly answer the question of presidential eligibility; this specific question has never been formally considered in the Judiciary;
4. Mr. Berg-Andersson likes to say that if someone is born with a different nationality than being American that somehow that secondary nationality cannot be a controlling legal authority over that person and, hence, when I mention that places like FactCheck.org freely admit that Mr. Obama was born a British subject, that should have nothing to do with his nationality;
   1. If point 4 absolutely holds true, then would Mr. Berg-Andersson — and, more importantly, the opposition in general — admit that if Mr. Obama were physically born in the great State of Hawaii while simultaneously holding British citizenship that Mr. Obama be considered simultaneously a British subject when in England, and an American citizen while in America (or Britain, for that matter)?
   2. If point 4, subpoint 1 is admissible by the opposition, then one must necessarily conclude that Mr. Obama is likely an American citizen of another sort, but not a natural born citizen RE: the presidential eligibility clause; there could be no other option;
5. Could it be, Mr. Berg-Andersson, that nobody ever thought of taking a President’s eligibility seriously until now? Of course, this isn’t an excuse on behalf of the American people that such vetting hadn’t happened to such a degree before, however I personally have never witnessed the premise of racism with respect to any serious discussion of eligibility, except as a baseless castigation bandied about by the opposition as a means to silence the questioning;
6. I beg your pardon, Mr. Berg-Andersson, but I do not at this point believe, based on your verbiage, that you are an “O-bot;” clearly, you have the capacity and willingness to be independent-minded, even if we disagree;
7. Lastly, and I’ll put this in major emphasis: If it is true that there is nothing to the eligibility issue with this President and it is also true that such questioning will hurt the GOP during any forthcoming election cycle, then don’t worry about it! It will obviously take care of itself! If you think that some folks are acting very stupidly and will bring down a major political party, then all you have to do is step back and get out of the way. Of course, I completely disagree with this sentiment, but that’s beside the point.

So there you have it — my response to TheGreenPapers.com’s response to my critique of their commentary! With few exceptions, this was an excellent debate to have had, and hopefully others will take serious note of this back-and-forth and be willing to agree to disagree on things.

Really, it’s not the end of the world. I question this President’s eligibility, maybe you don’t.

Welcome to America.

-Phil

P.S.: I wanted to once again thank the wonderful readership of this blog for making it a “re” success: Since restarting, it has been receiving hundreds of new readers and thousands of page views a day, along with an Updates email listing of hundreds, and growing. As we’d say down here in Georgia, “Ya’ll are awesome!”

Email: phil [at] therightsideoflife [dot] com

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See the following links regarding the eligibility saga:

• The background:
  • Obama?s Presidential Eligibility: What You Need to Know
  • Obama’s Sealed Background Documentation
  • Obama Citizenship Facts
  • What’s the Difference Between a Birth Certification Versus a BirthCertificate
  • Hawai’i State Department of Health – Vital Records “Obama” page
• The questions:
  • Leo Donofrio Affirms FightTheSmears.com?s Obama Citizenship Admission
  • Fallible FactCheck.org: TheBirthers, Donofrio Cause Change on Obama Citizenship
  • Newsmax.com: Obama Birth Certificate Not Released
  • Keyes v. Lingle: Forensic Examiner and IT Expert Disprove Certification of Live Birth
  • The State Department and Sen. Patrick Leahy’s (D-VT) Natural Born Citizen Resolution (April 10, 2008)
  • Citizen Grand Jury Updates and Eligibility Lawsuit Listing

Full post as published by The Right Side of Life on May 31, 2010 (boomark / email).