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Friday Open Thread and Books: The Dark Side by Jane Mayer

By Alexa

If you haven't read NION co-administrator Valtin's Physicians, Psychologists & the Problem of "The Dark Side" -- well, whatcha waitin' for, muchacho?

Five days after 9/11, Vice President Cheney appeared on television and talked about fighting terrorism, stating: "...We have to work the dark side, if you will. Spend time in the shadows of the intelligence world. ..."
NION readers are well aware of the background, and that matters have come to . . . unfortunate? sickening? let's just be honest and admit we're talking about war crimes and a spiderweb of immense proportions, with thousands of victims (that we know of). I would venture that the tens of thousands of victims will ultimately prove more accurate.

We've all read about the state of panic in high offices after 9/11, and this, of course, is completely understandable, the fear of another attack certainly reasonable. The fact that said high offices dismissed their CIA and counterterrorism czars' urgent concern pre-9/11? The August 6 PDF? Eh, not so much. In one memorable incident repeated in quite a few books, DCI George Tenet was blown off by Dubya when Tenet visited the Vacationing President in Crawford with a plea to be heard about al Qaeda. "All right, you've covered your ass now" was The Decider's only response.

Cheney, nontheless, had participated in survivalist training and government-in-crisis drills for many years previous with David Addington.

The post 9/11 push for more information, more actionable, urgent, detailed information and CIA-FBI information-sharing is also easily understandable. But the CIA wasn't prepared to carry out military operations, and notwithstanding a direct order to return someone's head "in a box" with "confirm - dismemberment." The fact that Donald Rumsfeld was extremely guarded and walked out of principals meetings (apparently the vato smelled bloodlust and tried to cover his ass to a certain degree) and George Tenet's fawning and political posturing created an environment in which It Had To Be Yoo, and the law was dispensed almost as a doctor writes a prescription.

John Yoo and the fine, upstanding attorneys in the OLC (special h/t "Alfredo" Gonzales) tailored the law as we knew it to such a degree that tortured legislation isn't an exaggeration. Bush thrived like poison oak in this environment, which led to remarks such as these, which I found shocking and very disturbing.

We knew that Zubaydah had more information that could save innocent lives, but he stopped talking. As his questioning proceeded, it became clear that he had received training on how to resist interrogation. And so the CIA used an alternative set of procedures. I cannot describe the specific methods used -- I think you understand why.

What Seligman Told Valtin is important to this discussion. Go back to that link and you'll see why.

AMY GOODMAN: We invited Dr. Martin Seligman to join us on the program. His answer was simple: "I am not available." But he did respond to what you have written, and I want to read what his statement is-

JANE MAYER: OK.

AMY GOODMAN: -that you have also responded to. This is what he has said, not to us specifically, but his statement to Jane Mayer's book The Dark Side. He said, quote, "The allegation that I 'provided assistance in the process' of torture is completely false.

"I gave a three hour lecture sponsored by SERE (the Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape branch of the American armed forces) at the San Diego Naval Base in May 2002. My topic was how American troops and American personnel could use what is known about learned helplessness and related findings to resist torture and evade successful interrogation by their captors. I was told then that since I was (and am) a civilian with no security clearance that they could not discuss American methods of interrogation with me. I have not had contact with SERE since that meeting.

"I have not worked under government contract (or any other contract) on any aspect of interrogation or any aspect of torture. Mr. Mitchell and Mr. Jessen were present in the audience of about 50 others at my speech, and that was, to the best of my knowledge, the sum total of my 'assisting them in the process.'

"I have had no contact at all with the American Psychological Association about their relevant policies. Most importantly, I strongly disapprove of torture and have never and would never provide assistance in its process."

JANE MAYER: Well, I have to say, first, that he-it's not a contradiction of The Dark Side, because the allegation that he, quote-unquote, "assisted torture" comes from a blogger who was reading my book. It's not actually what I say in the book. The book is-he confirms all of the facts in the book, which are very accurate. It describes the lecture he gave. It describes his relationship with the SERE program exactly as it was. And so, I actually-you know, the one thing I have to say is, he's not and has not contradicted any of the facts in the book itself. He's reacting to accounts by bloggers there. I think he's just basically confirming it, reconfirming it. I have to say, every-

AMY GOODMAN: What did you learn from that response?

JANE MAYER: Well, I mean, what I learned is there are a lot of unanswered questions that I would really like to put to him, but when I did try to question him further, he said he had no further comment. He's a very-obviously a very erudite and savvy man. What did he think he was doing when he went to talk to the CIA at their confab at the SERE school? How did he know Mitchell and Jessen were in the audience, unless-did he speak to them? Did he know what their role was, in terms of interrogations? You know, there are a lot of things that would be great to know. It's hard to tell, because he keeps shutting down the conversation when it gets interesting.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I wanted to go further with the American Psychological Association and a former president. Last year, it was revealed former APA president Joseph Matarazzo is a partner of Mitchell & Jessen, and the New York Times reported the CIA interrogator of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah, Deuce Martinez, now works for Mitchell and Jessen's firm in Spokane, Washington.

JANE MAYER: Right. And it's-this one firm keeps cropping up again and again. You know, Jessen and Mitchell, I guess, are not members of the APA, from what I understand, but the connections to the APA and this program keep popping up again and again. It may-it's really interesting. It may say something about why the APA has been so reluctant to take a categorical stance, as psychiatrists have, saying there's no role for this profession in torture or in coercive interrogations.

Let's put aside the word "torture", because it's a semantic game. But the medical profession takes, you know, an oath. The Hippocratic Oath is "do no harm." And I think it's the role of medics, nurses, doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, who keep cropping up in reports that you get from detainees about-they'll be in a moment of extremis, and suddenly a doctor will appear and certify that it's OK to keep interrogating them. I think it's an area that is really ripe for investigation. Source: Democracy Now)

Semantic games, twisting the language of the law, tortured legal interpretations enabled this.

"More than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries. Many others have met a different fate," she quotes Bush saying in 2003. "Let's put it this way: They are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies."  

Full post as published by Never In Our Names on August 01, 2008 (boomark / email).